0:16 All right, welcome everybody. We’re just going to give it uh about
30 seconds for the the room to fill and then we’ll get started.

0:50 Okay. Um, why don’t we why don’t we get rolling? I think this is a
good good turnout. So, um, welcome and good

0:58 afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us for the third
session in the geothermal heating and cooling webinar

1:06 series. I’m Scott Stone of Gleno Strategies. I’m the host of the
series.

1:11 So far, with the prior two webinars, we’ve looked at the big
picture. How geothermal systems save energy, strengthen the grid, and
offer reliable

1:20 solutions for homes, for businesses, and for electric utilities.
Today, we are getting into the human side of the

1:28 story, the jobs, skills, and economic opportunity offered by the
industry for everyday Americans. Geothermal heating

1:35 and cooling is growing, but scaling it nationwide isn’t just about
the technology. It’s about the people, the drillers, the installers, the

1:43 manufacturers, the folks that are building this industry from the
ground up, quite literally. We’re going to hear from leaders who are
creating real

1:52 training pathways, hiring across rural and urban areas, and helping
workers, some coming from oil and gas, to build

1:59 family sustaining careers in this sector. Uh this is a space where
economic development, workforce growth,

2:06 and American energy dominance all come together.

2:11 I hope that you’ll walk away with a better sense of not only where
the industry is headed, but who’s powering that growth and and how we
can support

2:18 them. Want to say a big thank you to Mission Geo, to IGXPA, and to
the Geothermal Exchange Organization for making this series possible.
Mission Geo

2:27 is an independent initiative of the geothermal exchange
organization fostering awareness and use of geothermal heating and
cooling

2:35 technologies and of course is a nonprofit trade group founded in
1987 to support the geothermal heating and

2:42 cooling industry. So with that let’s start with our first panelist
uh Colt McCarthy. Colt welcome.

2:51 Hi thanks for having me.

2:53 Colt, let’s start with who you are, what you do, and where you’re
based.

2:58 Yes. Uh, my name is Colt McCarthy. I’m the CEO of Republic
Dr. Co. We are a 40-year-old family organization who has been delivering

3:06 water well, geothermal, mining, shallow oil, and gas drilling
equipment um to the areas in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, California, and
now Connecticut.

3:19 It’s a good spread. So, um, how would you describe, you know, what
the current labor demand is in your corner of the of

3:27 the industry, particularly in in drilling?

3:31 Even before today, I’ve been told many times in the last decade
that if you could supply a driller with your drill,

3:39 I’d buy another drill. It seems to be that the labor shortage is
always an issue when it comes to expanding uh a

3:46 company’s drilling fleet and particularly with the demand of
geothermal. It’s no exception.

3:54 Yeah. So, so as you know the industry continues to grow um what you
know what are the the skills uh

4:03 and roles you know you believe in will be in highest demand? You
know kind of unpacking your your comment about about the showing up with
the drill. Tell me more about that.

4:13 You know, it’s it’s a lot more than just the person on the drill as
we continue to scale this industry because a

4:20 planning the project and establishing the what method you’re going
to choose to drill a project takes a someone with

4:28 a lot of tenure and that’s not someone who can be easily trained in
any program. So, we’re going to need to have to maintain uh the higher
skilled

4:36 veteran drillers that can advise and equip a a drilling team to
show up on site and execute the project

4:44 appropriately. And so from the from the training standpoint of
someone that’s uh assisting the driller, someone that is operating the
drill safely and

4:53 effectively and efficiently to the person who’s also maybe managing
multiple sites to make sure that the drilling crews are are being
productive

5:02 and meeting the the drilling goals for the project.

5:06 And thinking about the uh you know the veteran drillers keeping
them in the industry, what what what do you feel you

5:13 need to see in order to uh continue to you know feed the guys who
really know what they’re doing, have a lot of good experience, are
capable of doing more.

5:25 Uh I I think we need to give them uh the capacity to put their
knowledge into other drillers. we have in our our

5:33 company to, you know, to pass on the knowledge to make sure that
that knowledge is captured and transferred to the next generation
because for the the

5:43 longest time very few people have been doing the work of many. And
so we really rely on people that are very experienced

5:50 and we push them very hard to cover many projects, many drillers
and we need to be able to find ways to capture that

5:57 knowledge and pass that on to the next generation.

6:02 So, Colt, you know, the um the geothermal heating and cooling
straddles, you know, energy and

6:08 and infrastructure sectors. Um how do you prepare uh you know, new
new drillers and others new to the workforce

6:17 in order to operate safely and and efficiently in this space?

6:22 I think that oil and gas has done a good job at setting safety
standards over the last decade. you’ve really seen that that culture
shift. Uh different

6:31 companies have different safety cultures, but for the most part,
it’s better than it ever has been. And if we

6:38 can equip them with a safe machinery, uh for example, hands-free
operations, um or machinery that doesn’t require a lot

6:46 of physical input, then I think we have a a first start to keeping
the crew safe, um and operating more efficiently.

6:55 And maybe um unpacking that a little bit more, you know, uh um if
if you’re out looking for work, nothing like a growing

7:04 industry to to offer opportunity. So from someone who shows up, you
know, uh green, you know, on their first day,

7:12 what is the the the training process and and pipeline look like?
And then um second, if you could elaborate on, you know, what a what a
what a possible

7:21 trajectory might be or trajectories in terms of how you could grow
from, you know, your first day on the job to, you know, wherever you
might be five years down the line, something like that.

7:34 That that’s a uh that’s a unique question because every
organization is going to have a different um ability and

7:41 capabilities to scale their their current workforce.

7:46 uh if that you know we have very few things that are industry
standard I think most of our organizations have had to make their own
processes and make

7:54 their own ways and so there’s not a lot of uh templates that these
organizations that are actually doing the work um have

8:02 for growth and so it’s a lot of reinventing or not there’s not much
reinventing the wheel they’re having to figure stuff out as they go
along so I

8:10 think that that’s still a current challenge Yeah. And um in terms
of then where

8:17 where folks might be coming from, I mean something that I know uh I
think you know we we talked about at New York Geo and I know others have
in in the space

8:26 have have commented on and written about you know uh quite
effectively is the transferability of skills from other um

8:35 industries like oil, gas and and water drilling into geothermal. um
there you know wonder if you could comment on you

8:44 know the the the consistencies the similarities you know how
transferable it is what adaptations are required but

8:51 but really I think the bottom line though is that these are these
are not um separate disciplines these are maybe cousins maybe close
cousins but um and

9:00 9 minutesyou’re kind of all in the same in the same line of work I
think that’s absolutely right the the geothermal drilling industry

9:09 um you know as as far as the from the heating and cooling aspect
has been really built by the traditional water

9:16 well drillers and some of the larger organizations uh found their
their start in either water well drilling or environmental drilling. Um,
so it’s it’s

9:26 unique now that we starting to see some people focused just on uh
geothermal drilling, but the most of the drillers

9:34 around the country that cover uh small pockets here and there,
they’re your traditional family-owned water well

9:41 drilling companies that are still doing kind of the the the
groundwork for geothermal.

9:48 Yeah. No, that’s great. And um and how about you know from a from a
geographic kind of distribution um uh standpoint? I

9:58 mean you know some areas like you know in where you’re you’re
headquartered in and around Austin there’s a lot of folks

10:05 other places a bit more rural maybe the the labor pool can be can
be differently configured. I was wondering if you could

10:13 tell us about your your experience with, you know, what barriers
you run into in in, you know, unique geographies, how

10:20 you’ve sought to overcome them. And uh because I’m I’m pretty
sure, you know, you’re not driving around in your truck from Texas to
California to Connecticut every week. Um or at least I hope not.

10:32 And uh and so, you know, how are you at Republic? How do you how
do you handle all that?

10:38 Well, at Republic Drill Co. um you know, doing the drilling
ourselves and hiring the drillings drillers is not one of the

10:45 one of our uh problems to solve for because we are still selling
the equipment and supporting the people who are doing the drillings. And
so we we

10:53 get feedback from a nationwide audience, but it is still very
challenging to find

11:00 11 minutesuh to to find local work where you go because it’s uh if
the work is transient, that job might not be there

11:09 in the future. So I think it’s important that we continue to find
u ways to make this sustainable and and consistent for for people to
invest their careers in.

11:20 Yeah. You know, and that’s maybe a final point is how much the the
the the the current pace

11:27 um of the of the work of the jobs and then its trajectory
influences your planning, your investment, your hiring.

11:36 Um like what are what you know what does the future look like to
you uh based on you know how you think the industry is doing now?

11:46 Uh we’re we’re quite heavily invested in into the future of
geothermal um from a support network to a sales network and

11:54 investing in machinery to meet the needs. But it it’s an
interesting topic because my family’s been involved with it since the
late

12:02 90s. So it’s not a secret to us that that it’s a very um common
sense approach to provide heating and cooling.

12:11 And in places like Texas where people might say, “Oh, it it’s not
as effective here or effective there.” Well, they’re not true
statements. You know, they’re they’re kind of unvalidated statements.

12:21 It may be something that someone has heard from somebody and
passed on to somebody else. But if a project is engineered right, um
it’s effective in most climates.

12:31 Great. Um any other thoughts on this topic that we didn’t cover
that you might want to might want to mention? um you know things you’re
you’re excited

12:40 about, things you’re concerned about um or just you know any other
interesting odds and ends.

12:47 I think we we look at the labor uh the labor challenge of this but
if you talk to some of the owner operators in the

12:54 industry uh access to affordable capital is is also a barrier for
them to invest in in new machinery. I mean, you have uh

13:02 small businesses investing, you know, 800 to at least a million
dollars per asset, if not more, um to continue to scale their
organizations.

13:12 And uh the cost of capital can be quite high to acquire funding
for that.

13:18 Yeah. And you know, I’ll follow up on that with this, which is,
you know, it’s it’s um pretty hard to think of an uh an

13:26 industry or a sector that’s more like, you know, in America by
Americans, you know, with Americanmade products. Uh

13:34 I mean, this is as homegrown as it as it gets. And you know, any
growth that returns that capital and and and its

13:43 benefits to Americans and to the US economy. you made. Am I right?

13:49 That’s that’s a very great point as well. And one of the things we
even communicate within our own team is that when somebody’s drill is
not operating

13:57 and from a service perspective, we understand that that one drill
rig probably feeds at least three families if not more in the production
work that

14:06 it does. And and those are those are families all over the country
that you know they depend on the job, they depend on the machine to be
running. And so we

14:15 take it very personal that supporting the industry is not just
supporting that machine and that company, but there’s quite a few people
that rely on that

14:22 asset to be operating for their own livelihood. Yeah. No, that’s
great. That’s great.

14:28 Well, Colt, we’re going to we’re going to transition, but before
we do, I’m I’m going to um make note that last month in Albany at NYGO,
uh you guys very

14:38 graciously gave me a Republic Drill T-shirt and hat, which I have
been wearing. And um I don’t yet have any

14:45 gear from any of the other panelists, but I wanted to disclose
this upfront in case there’s concern. I will wear whatever any of you
all send me. Just be

14:54 advised, it probably is not going to help you very much from a
recruiting standpoint. I don’t think me walking around with your stuff
inspires anything. But just so you know, it’s

15:02 been uh it’s gotten some good use at the at the gym and on the
jogging trail already.

15:06 I appreciate that. We one of the challenges in this industry are
there’s there’s not a lot of brands that transcend the industry and that
kind of

15:14 speak for all drillers or or all people involved. And so one of
our goals with Republic Drillco is is to be a brand

15:22 that represents our industry well and tells the story of the
sacrifices made from the men and women who have have built this
industry.

15:31 Great. Well, thanks Colt. Um, we’re going to move on to to
Courtney, but stick around in case uh in case something uh uh down your
alley comes

15:38 up. So, Courtney LOL from Midwest Geothermal, chief sales officer.
Um, Courtney, welcome.

15:47 Great. Thank you so much for having me.

15:50 Tell us a little bit about what you do and about Midwest
Geothermal and where you’re based.

15:56 Sure. So, uh, name Midwest Geothermal, right? We are based in
Grand Rapids, Michigan, but we are an installing

16:03 contractor and we serve 48 states uh here in the US. So we have
drilled uh what almost 8 million bore flood at this

16:12 point. Uh we have drill crews that have traveled to Los Angeles,
up into the Washington state, all the way over to the east coast, up
into Massachusetts,

16:21 down the east coast, and everywhere in between. So we are solely
focused on the geothermal market, have been for 17

16:28 years. uh and really try and serve the industry uh as aggressively
and as openly as we can. Uh so I’m excited to

16:37 talk about this um particularly because we at Midwest have started
our own uh Department of Labor approved apprenticeship program to help
with

16:46 exactly this topic. So very excited to hear about this.

16:49 Yeah. Well, why don’t we why don’t we start with that? tell us
about um the program, what it is, uh its origins, what drove you to it,
and then honestly

16:58 the mechanics to me are very interesting. So like what does this
on a day-to-day basis mean in terms of what you’re doing and and what it
looks like?

17:06 Absolutely. So I did want to highlight a couple of the questions
that you’d actually asked Colt um that’ll kind of lead us into this, but
one of them was a

17:13 trajectory for an employee. So, our current president started on
the lowest rung of the totem pole here. Um, he

17:22 started in the field grouting bore holes. Um, and has been here 17
years and is now the president of the company.

17:29 This industry is incredible for its opportunity to foster growth.
If you’re willing to learn and try something new

17:38 at work outside uh the sky is the limit for anyone in this
industry to try and take something on uh or become just

17:45 invaluable whether that’s the grouter or all the way up. So it is
pretty cool um to be able to see that kind of growth uh in

17:54 the industry. Um so the program for us started honestly I’m out of
a need. uh there really isn’t necessarily an

18:02 apprenticeship program or many offered, particularly those that
cover the entire US. So for us, it really started out of

18:11 wanting to foster good growth, uh long-term sustainable growth for
our employees. Uh what we do is not easy. Uh

18:20 especially as Midwest Geothermal, as I said at the name is a
little misleading anymore since we serve the whole US. Uh but our
employees travel uh and travel

18:30 quite a bit and so we wanted to make sure that we were able to
educate them and train them in a way that was sustainable and safe so
that everybody

18:38 can do just have a lot of fun, do a good job and come home safely
every day. So for us it was really born out of that.

18:45 And then the honestly the incentives helped as well, right? that
part of the contingency um within current

18:54 legislation is to have registered apprentices. So, it really
helped uh kind of foster that growth. We had

19:02 started it but kind of accelerated it based on on current
incentives available uh to help with apprenticeship uh percentage
requirements. But, but for

19:11 us, it was really more how can we best serve the industry? Well,
we can best serve the industry by appropriately training and having a
good uh registered training program for our guys.

19:20 and and how um uh you know how do you what kind of channels do you
use to to get the word out? What types of groups,

19:29 populationations, skill sets? I mean um you know where do you look
to find people for the apprentice program and otherwise?

19:38 Um yes, everywhere, anywhere we can get access and have an ear to
listen to us.

19:45 Um whether that’s high school career days, um a lot of our
employees come from word of mouth. Um the culture that

19:53 we cultivate here at Midwest and the way that we treat our
employees has fostered incredible growth just for word of mouth

20:00 20 minutesand uh referrals from our current employees. But but we
do invest time into going to uh career fairs at any

20:09 high school within a reasonable driving distance of our office um
just to educate them about what opportunities

20:17 there are here. The best part of what we do is it’s really cool.
The worst part or the hardest part is that it’s invisible once it’s
done. So, unless you

20:25 can point it out and then educate those high school students uh or
show them a little bit, even have little remote

20:32 control excavators they can play with uh or they’re sitting there
at the career fair just to get them excited about what it is that we do
is a big deal that even

20:40 if they don’t come join us in the field, maybe they look at
another opportunity with another career choice that also touches the
industry, might get them excited in another way.

20:51 And um so right out of high school, this is something you can do
in lie of college or or whatever. And then do do

20:59 you find your apprentices or your targets are, you know, uh uh
high school grads or do people show up later in

21:07 their 20s or or maybe coming from other other careers? How how
does that distribute?

21:13 Absolutely. We see from high school students all the way up to
maybe this is their second or third career that they’re looking to kind
of restart

21:21 things and looking for new opportunities. I mean, we have 20,
30-year age gaps um in these apprentices

21:28 and it’s honestly just because they’re excited about the
opportunities. Uh the pay is great. The opportunities are

21:35 limitless in this industry. So, they get really excited about what
they can do and how they can grow. Uh to Colt’s point, um one of these
drill rigs does impact multiple families at a time.

21:46 Multiple employees are affected by that one rig running. So to see
the opportunities afforded and then again

21:53 the referral basis from existing employees that are excited to
share that opportunity with others is great and couldn’t speak higher
about this industry and what its possibilities are.

22:04 And maybe to to to uh pun intended because I’m a middle-aged dad,
um to

22:10 drill down a little bit um into that uh and maybe to maybe to
unpack the example of going from grouter to president like

22:20 um so you know clearly that’s someone who showed up every day
ready to roll but what else goes into it when you can

22:28 have that kind of um you know verticality in a in in a in a career
in an industry like um and not just that

22:36 example but just in general like if you could tell me more about
you know um how something like that uh uh happens.

22:46 To be honest, the most successful people that we see come out of
the apprenticeship programs are the ones that can sustain that
excitement and

22:53 keep a bit of the awe of what we do. It is pretty amazing. I’ve
done this for a long time and I know Mike and Colt and I

23:00 23 minuteshave all talked about this a little bit that it’s still
pretty cool to see these drill rigs that have a 20 foot stick be able to
drill 800 ft down in the ground

23:09 and to understand how to do that to be not necessarily even
ambitious enough but driven enough to understand that

23:17 different geologies are going to require maybe a little bit
different drilling technique or they’re going to have to learn and
educate themselves which

23:25 really only time can do. You can’t learn all of the geologies
unfortunately in a school or uh in a classroom setting, but

23:32 taking the time and really showing some initiative and passion
allows that kind of growth and trajectory. We have seen

23:39 people start early and move up very quickly just because they get
excited about that that they see a new geology

23:46 and they’re excited, not necessarily intimidated about what
opportunity that could be. That and competitiveness. Um when you’re
drilling geo, it’s all about

23:55 production. how quickly can we go from top to bottom out back onto
the next one. So to see that kind of drive uh and competitive nature too
on a site is

24:03 pretty cool and that’s when you start to see some real growth too.

24:07 That’s great. I mean it’s it’s it’s a really heartening um story
uh at a time when you know you look more broadly

24:14 across the economy and it seems like what opportunities there are
come with lots of strings attached and there are

24:21 real limits in terms of mobility or there’s high barriers in terms
of the types of training and and experience needed. I mean, this sounds
like almost

24:30 something out of like a Charles Dickens novel where you kind of,
you know, you you hop off the train and you show up and, you know, you
can start going and

24:38 really it’s only, you know, the the more experience you get,
meaning the more demand and the more growth in the industry, the more
you’d be able to grow

24:47 your career, support your family, be part of your community and
and so forth.

24:51 I mean, is that a am I am I oversimplifying or overstating it?

24:56 You’re not really. I mean when we look at you know even more rural
employees or employees that are coming into this and

25:04 finding geo as a new opportunity some of these people are learning
or are earning money that are generational wealth type

25:12 uh you know they’re earning an incredible living for them and
their family and it’s part of even our apprenticeship program and even
our culture here at Midwest is that we really take the employee full
circle.

25:23 Not only do we want to give them the skill set to be able to drill
a hole, right, or to excavate a trench or do the actual hands-on things,
but we also want to teach them about long-term wealth

25:32 management and how to take this incredible opportunity and
translate that into long-term success for them.

25:37 Um, and not just the coolest shiniest truck that day.

25:41 Yeah. Well, let let’s delve a little bit into the policy space
because it sounds like um keeping this going, allowing,

25:49 you know, it to continue to grow. I think really true for all our
panelists um you know hinges on um continued

25:57 interest in geothermal heating and cooling at large. And in the
first two webinars you know we we really shown a

26:04 spotlight on the way it can you know save money over time the way
it confers benefits to the grid and electric

26:12 utilities rural co-ops in particular. Um key on that are you know
incentives that are out there and drivers. I mean that

26:21 this would not be uh unique by any means um to figure out ways for
for to use policy to um to you know drive demand

26:31 and and support growth. We’ve certainly been doing that with um
tax credits, federal tax credit that date back, you know, you know,
years and years and

26:39 years. These are not new things by any means, even if they’ve had
different incarnations as congresses come and come and go.

26:47 um what’s your expectation and and and what’s your sort of hope
for what the future policy support looks like given

26:56 that you know I think what you’ve underscored is you know who are
the beneficiaries of these policies who who really gains from it and
it’s clear that you know these are these are everyday

27:05 working Americans that that have a chance you know from high
school kids to people on career number three or four I’m kind of
answering the question for

27:12 you I do that sometimes maybe put it in your own words and uh and
disagree with me if I’ve got it wrong.

27:19 No, I the best part about making sure that policy matches the
excitement around this industry is that there’s

27:26 nothing more energy independent or resilient than utilizing the
energy under our feet. I can’t outsource it because I have to do it
here. I have to

27:35 have drill rigs that are supported by US companies. I have to have
uh employees here. I have to have material here. I I

27:44 can’t really outsource a lot of if any uh of this installation.
So, it is crucial to get everyone’s support

27:53 uh from all the way up to all the way down to make sure that we
are continuing to support these families that rely on this industry and
it becomes so intrinsic to its success.

28:03 Terrific. Well said. Well said. We um we’re going to transition
now to the next panelist, but but stick around Courtney if you would and
um um you

28:12 know, we’ll see if we um before we close can have a little cross
panelist uh discussion, but but thank you very much, you know, for these
for these insights

28:20 and also good to have a fellow Midwesterner uh here at today.
We’ll send you some swag.

28:27 Okay, good. Yeah, I shamelessly will accept and wear it. Um Mike,
welcome.

28:34 Thank you. Thank you for having me. All right. We are we are ready
for you.

28:39 I hope you’re ready for us. Um I’m wondering if we could start
just with, you know, um who you are and and and and tell us a little bit
about Loop Tech and

28:47 and and where you’re based and just sort of set the stage.

28:50 Uh my name is Mike Tol. I’m the CEO of Loop Tech Geothermal based
out of Sanger, Texas, which is north of the

28:58 Dallas Fort Worth area. Loop Tech was founded in 1984.

29:03 So, we’ve been around a long time and worked not quite as many
states as Courtney. Not a competition, right? But,

29:11 um, we stopped counting at about 30 and over the years have had a
hopefully a good impact on the industry as a whole.

29:21 Um, I share a lot of the sentiments that that Courtney and Colt
expressed with

29:27 the opportunities to provide good um paying careers,

29:35 not just jobs, but careers for individuals.

29:39 And I don’t really think that that folks see the amount of impact
that our industry has on multiple different trades.

29:49 So I think it’s important to recognize that. Yeah. Let let’s um
let’s build on that.

29:55 Tell me about the you know the spread, the different types of
trades, how you’ve seen and experience that in terms of the the real
breadth of of of who’s involved in this in this industry.

30:07 So the the hot button as a blade has been drilling. Like Cole
expressed, if you know, if we could hire a a driller

30:15 with every rig that we purchased, it would be easier to scale.
Obviously, that takes a lot of support, a lot of support personnel, a
lot of support

30:23 equipment. Majority of all that equipment, if not all of it, is
made here in the United States.

30:29 But to start at the very beginning with work that’s done by design
teams and the staffs that they have. Uh so you can

30:37 start adding households that each of those rigs add u support to
um from the design team. The the drilling the loop

30:45 installers obviously is a a huge part of what we do. You’ve got
the the tie-in or the headering crews the equipment

30:53 operators. Again, additional equipment that most people think
geothermal drilling, they don’t realize how much equipment is purchased
and operated and

31:03 serviced out of this industry.

31:07 Interior piping working scopes vary across the North America. U we
do a lot

31:14 of interior piping work that uh historically and and in a lot of
places are are done with steel. So, we’re

31:22 seeing a little bit of that change and and go to HDP, which just
helps support the people that are trained in pipe

31:30 fusion and trained in installing geothermal um material
manufacturers, grout, pipe, the specialty fittings.

31:42 This is all USmade product and again feeds a much broader spectrum
of people

31:49 than what we realize just on the surface. So I think it’s
important to

31:56 realize that and support those other sectors of our industry as a
whole.

32:04 Yeah. And you know, I think sometimes what maybe gets lost in in
the shuffle is the multiplier effect where you have

32:11 an industry that relies on well, I should say where you have a a a
sort of made in America industry that relies on

32:19 lots of other made in America industries as suppliers and and and
as um partners.

32:26 Then, you know, growth of that industry means lots of other made
in America industries grow as well. It really has a

32:33 has a you know sort of geometric impact across the economy when
you see something like geothermal heating and

32:40 cooling you know continue to grow and even boom there there’s lots
of beneficiaries well beyond just uh just the guy with a drill.

32:49 Absolutely. And we’re we’re hearing a lot of very encouraging
commitments from

32:59 u different types of manufacturers, equipment manufacturers and
suppliers about investing in

33:06 the United States made in America and and there is so much buzz
across the world and I think especially

33:15 from from American manufacturers of how do we ramp this up? How do
we expand this? How do we scale it? And we all have struggles every day
in scaling.

33:25 We’ve got to have work to train drillers. We’ve got to have work
to keep that consistency flowing. And historically, that’s been an
issue.

33:34 That’s been a tough battle for us to face. We’re extremely busy 8
or 10 months out of the year or six or eight months out of the year. And
then there’s

33:42 a lull. There’s a downtime. And we need to we need to close that
that gap and that lull and that downtime. The other

33:49 thing that it does is if we can do that and we can have more
consistent work, we can also control better the cost of goods, the cost
of the product that

33:57 we’re selling and the end cost to the consumer which is just going
to feed on itself.

34:04 Yeah. So I mean if I could extrapolate from that, tell me if this
is true where this is a this is a product, this is a

34:11 technology where once installed it’s going to save the homeowner
or the business owner or the college campus or

34:19 whatever money uh from an operational standpoint and then the more
it grows, you know, the the lower that capex

34:27 figure is going to be and the more savings are going to abound to
to all involved. Is that a that a true statement? AB:

34:35 Absolutely. And and again, drilling is just a portion of this of
this technology. We’re going back in some K

34:44 through2 schools, a lot of them in the Austin area. Dallas is just
starting to see this where they’re they’re having um equipment change
outs, unit change outs.

34:53 And as this happens, these are these are systems that are 25, 30
years old.

34:58 They’re still in operation, still functioning. The actual
geothermal part of the water portion of

35:05 this system has outlived the equipment that’s in the building.
This this lasts for decades.

35:14 And to Cole’s point, geothermal will work anywhere. It just has to
be designed properly.

35:21 There’s a large difference in how systems are designed between
Texas, for example, and and Michigan.

35:28 So, it’s going to continue to grow and the number of people
involved in it to

35:36 service this industry is going to continue to grow.

35:40 you know, and you hit on something I think we’re actually going to
going to look at in the in the next uh webinar, which would be um you
know, specific

35:49 projects and what it looks like. And you know, when it comes to
schools, that idea of longevity, when you compare when you pair it then
with the cost savings,

35:57 you know, operationally, that’s more money that school can spend
on its students. And, you know, to have something that’s longlasting. I
mean, we

36:05 all have like for me, there’s a guy at my high school who like I
thought was ancient when I went there in the in the early 90s and he’s
still there and he

36:13 looks the same. Like there’s always that guy. And I feel like the
the geothermal rig is basically like in that same status of it’s just
it’s just there and

36:22 associated with the school for for generations and um and can
really contribute to then you know what that

36:30 school’s meant to do and its primary purpose.

36:34 A lot of the retrofit retrofit projects that we’ve seen in K
through 12. This is information coming from the different

36:40 districts save as much as 40% on their cost of operation over 25
or 30 years. That adds up to a

36:48 lot of money and a lot of money that’s freed up for that district
to use to do what is intended, which is educate

36:54 children. So, it’s uh I we’re starting to see the long lasting
effects of it

37:02 and how this is not put it in and then you never go back again. It
may be 20 25 years you’ll be back and you’ll be

37:11 servicing these systems again. Um, but it’s it’s very exciting.
And to Courtney’s point, the amount of passion

37:18 that’s in this industry all across from the design to
commissioning of these systems, the

37:26 amount of passion it is there when people see how efficient
geothermal is and how it it

37:33 has such of a impact and a benefit to the people that are in it
and also the consumers.

37:41 um that passion just continues to grow.

37:45 So, Mike, here’s a here’s a question for you and and uh this was
not on the the questions we kind of circulated early to uh to prep, but
if you’re king for a

37:53 day, what are some things you’d want to do right off the bat that
you think would help the the the geothermal heating and cooling
industry?

38:05 Education. Um, and when I say education, I’m talking about the
promotion and the education of consumers, education of of

38:14 anyone that is a candidate for geothermal. There are so many myths
to geothermal and its

38:23 effectiveness, its applicability to different areas of the
country, how it’s used. Um, I think that educating people

38:33 would be the educating the public would probably be the biggest
impact.

38:41 Mhm. So, making sure there’s greater awareness that this is an
option as opposed to just traditional HVAC setup.

38:49 Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

38:51 Yeah, for sure. Mike, anything else before we uh Joselyn’s been
waiting patiently and and someone had to go go

38:58 last and we we uh certainly was not in order uh in any particular
order, but anything Mike before uh before we go and

39:06 we might be able to bring everyone back at the end for a little
discussion, but just to to repeat Courtney’s sentiments,

39:15 you know, we we invest a lot of people a lot of money and time in
the people that work here in training. It’s not a short

39:22 process and we we have a very high retention rate for people that
apply theirel. We’ve seen people come out of

39:31 warehouse work that say I just want an opportunity.

39:37 We see people that come out of the oil and gas industry that say
I’m I want some more consistency in in what in my

39:44 life for my family and I think that this industry can provide it.

39:50 That’s great. That’s great. Well, thanks Mike. Really appreciate
it. And uh and Joselyn, thank you for uh for joining us

39:57 today. Um so Joselyn Lie, everyone is the CEO and co-founder of
Bedrock Energy

40:04 uh a technology company developing drilling automation and
subsurface AI technologies to make geo construction faster, safer, more
tech enabled, and

40:14 more consistent across any of the variations in subsurface
conditions. Now, did I get that right, Joselyn?

40:20 That’s right. Thank you for the introduction, Scott, and for
having me as part of this panel with a lot of uh extremely experienced
geoindustry veterans.

40:29 I appreciate it. You wrote that one for me, so there I was hoping
I wouldn’t screw it up just by by getting it out there, but really
really glad you you

40:36 could join us. And um uh let’s start with, you know, kind of
picking up a little bit on on what we talked about

40:43 with with Mike. So, you know, what parts of the of the of the
workforce do you think are are bottlenecks or or or challenges for
sustaining and even increasing growth going forward?

40:55 I would say I echo a lot of what was discussed here, especially um
with Courtney’s um message around the work

41:02 that Midwest does on on drilling apprenticeships, which is that
drillers are um drillers are are a bottleneck. I

41:10 believe the stat is that the average age historically for for geod
drillers in the past decade or so has been over 50 years old and it just
means that

41:18 training a new generation is not happening as fast as we would
like and I think there’s so many elements of that

41:26 public policy is a piece the efforts of uh experienced companies
like um you know Courtney’s and Mike’s are also a

41:33 piece where you um you go out and you pound pavement in uh job
fairs and in uh you know high schools and and technical

41:41 uh colleges, but all of that also should be buoied uh by
technology as well. And

41:48 so at Bedrock, what we focus on is that uh construction
technology, especially on the software and sensor side, can also be
brought in to make the training

41:57 and therefore the expansion of the driller workforce easier and
faster to

42:03 expand uh the people that we have um out there drilling and and
installing these uh geothermal systems across the country.

42:13 That’s great. And um you know maybe if you could elaborate a
little more on you know um you know specific skills roles

42:21 where where you where you sense demand is highest or or or would
maybe become increasingly vital to fill you know in

42:29 terms of looking forward at a with a positive growth trajectory.

42:34 Yeah, there’s certainly the the skills that are required for the
core geo system installation, which is to say the

42:41 drilling, the subsurface component. Um, and so the main skill
there is drilling and then um and then the installation and the
completion of those heat

42:49 exchanger boards. There’s also however what Mike mentioned which
is the um the job opportunities and the job demand for

42:58 the skills in the surface portion so to speak which is uh
installing the the HVAC equipment, installing the

43:07 mechanical pumps and tanks that connect to your geothermal heat
exchange bores uh and also doing the trenching and the

43:14 lateral construction from that geothermal energy asset underground
into the building. So there’s this entire value chain from subsurface to
building

43:23 um that has a myriad of jobs that are all really important um
roles that

43:30 really just put steel or plastic as it might be in the ground uh
for American energy uh infrastructure expansion, but

43:39 also uh just real estate construction and uh you know urban uh and
suburban construction expansion.

43:48 And you know as you think about different building types,
different geographies um I mean how much does that

43:55 add to the challenge in terms of um you know attracting uh people
in terms of developing skills you know I think what

44:03 we’ve what we’ve heard from everyone is that you know geothermal
is everywhere and and even where it’s not it could be there uh provided
it’s designed

44:13 how do you confront you know different project sizes types
different geographies, other other characteristics

44:20 too, just from project to project in your planning and in your you
know thinking about your workforce and and whatnot.

44:28 Yeah, there’s basically two um I think types of variation that um
drive the most uncertainty when you go from

44:35 geography to geography. The first type of variation is the
subsurface condition, right? soil and rock, hydraology, these things
change

44:44 sometimes, not only city to city and state to state, but sometimes
even within a city. Um, and even within the same county, you can have uh
variations

44:52 in how much groundwater flow there is and and where do you hit
that groundwater flow, how um how deep the

44:59 unconsolidated rock is before you hit really firm bedrock, so to
speak. uh what are the other types of soil and

45:06 rock that you hit across different layers and the deeper you go
the more variation there is. So that kind of variation does create some
uncertainty

45:15 on uh how how you drill in that area which then requires training.
Uh so I imagine you know Courtney’s team which

45:23 is sending drillers across the country is probably doing a decent
amount of training on what are the different in uh subsurface conditions
that you can

45:31 encounter and what do you do when you encounter those variations.
Right? So that’s on the subsurface side. On the surface side the
variation would be

45:39 around uh different building types have different building energy
consumption needs. they have different uh design profiles for the HVAC
system or the

45:48 mechanical system that sits in the building or in that district.
And on that front, what you often have is that

45:56 engineering firms and contractors need experience on the different
kinds of mechanical systems that might be specified, might be designed
for

46:05 different kinds of buildings. So what we what strategies we bring
to bear are um

46:13 kind of to I think Mike’s point education right on the building
side of things uh the more those building designs can have case studies
from

46:21 across the country so that engineers and contractors can see
what’s already been done and feel comfortable and confident the more
there are templates for really

46:30 good best practice mechanical designs and electrical designs the
more the uh the correct and easiest and most

46:38 cost-effective design can be replicated over and over again across
cities and across states around the United States.

46:45 So, so education is a really big piece on systematizing,
standardizing and scaling up u mechanical designs on the

46:52 surface. On the subsurface side, uh one of the things that Bedrock
does in that drilling automation uh software play is

47:02 something that we actually borrow significantly from oil and gas.
about 60% of my team comes from oil and gas.

47:07 And so they’re very used to these kinds of drilling algorithms
existing in the oil and gas world, which is where

47:14 technology can enable, no matter what kind of subsurface variation
there is, ranging from Massachusetts all the way

47:21 to Arizona and California. All of those variations are things that
can be demystified if a technology system is

47:28 reading the ground while you drill. And so those telemetry systems
are something that my team has utilized for decades in

47:36 oil and gas and has reinvented for geo, which is that while you
drill, you actually read all the variations in your groundwater flow, in
the soil and rock

47:45 conditions, the different kinds of hardness, the different
pressure gradients that you encounter and use that to drill much more
easily and in a

47:52 much more automated fashion. so that the training and uh learning
curve for new drillers doesn’t have to be as difficult

48:02 and as as long when they’re going from state to state and learning
all the different variations that they might encounter during the
drilling process.

48:09 So that strategy really helps us to collapse the uh the variation
in conditions and therefore enable smoother

48:17 workforce training and smoother workforce expansion.

48:21 Terrific. Terrific. And you know as we as we um as we wind down I
think I wanted to pivot a little bit u back into the policy space which
we we’ve dipped

48:29 into because you know obviously um and I think everyone here you
know needs no no convincing you have a uh a technology

48:38 you know an approach to providing something fundamental to our
modern way of life at heating and cooling and you have a way of doing it
in a you know

48:46 longlasting super coste effective way that confers all kinds of
other benefit.

48:52 benefits whether it’s to the grid or to um local workforces to you
know mobile more regional workforces that can pull

49:00 49 minutesin from other industries like oil and gas um and and and
put people to work. I mean um you know it it’s it’s not for

49:09 nothing that we wanted to stand this up and talk about this today
because there’s such a rich amount of of information that you know just
seems

49:17 ripe for sustained policy support. you know, this is a good thing
and it can do more and give back more to the country

49:26 and to our energy system and to our to our workforce, to our
economy. um as

49:32 you’ve been um engaging, you know, uh in the policy space lately,
what do you think is maybe the most important thing

49:41 that policymakers should know about this industry and and um you
know that that helps justify continued support from uh from Congress and
otherwise.

49:52 I think the most important thing is that the private sector and um
customers need

50:00 50 minutesto see consistency and stability in the market. And the
number one thing that

50:06 federal policy does to contribute to a really sustained,
consistent um and uh businessfriendly ecosystem for making

50:15 investments in technology, in workforce training, um in capital
equipment is uh the tax credit consistency. because

50:24 those things actually pro provide a long um a long cycle, a long
time frame where

50:31 private sector companies know that we can make those investments.
A million-doll drill rig is a very long-term investment, right? You
could

50:38 be using that uh for decades and you’re not going to make that
investment if the economic um certainty of the of the

50:46 industry of the sector is not very stable or sure. Um I think
that’s the number one thing. I think that there’s

50:53 probably a few other things related to um at the state level or
the federal level sharing a lot of those best

51:00 51 minutespractices uh you know those playbooks um and those um
case studies uh around uh

51:07 systems so that drillers uh contractors and engineers across the
country can see what those best practices are and

51:14 basically copy them and scale them to more and more regions. Um
and uh these are these are all ways where everybody from federal to
state to local can

51:22 really play a role um in nurturing a really uh healthy ecosystem
for companies like Colt’s company and and my company Bedrock uh to go
make those

51:31 investments at the you know supply chain and and R&D and um
capital level.

51:37 Terrific. Terrific. Well, thanks Jocelyn and and and thanks to all
our our panelists to to to Colt and to Courtney and and to Mike. You
know, thanks again

51:45 to to Mission Geo and to IGPA and to Geo Exchange for bringing us
together. You know, I feel like when you have such a

51:53 good story to tell in this day and age, it’s incumbent upon you to
retell it and tell it in different ways and get the

52:01 word out. So grateful that we could do this today and of course
we’ll um take a lot of the the ideas and and and and

52:09 concepts and facts offered here and continue to disperse them in
the policy space and elsewhere uh all in support of

52:18 of geothermal heating and cooling. And so really appreciate it and
uh we will we were going to reorganize and come back I think with at
least one more of

52:26 these on on on special projects and and what they look like and
and um and you know talking about it from from that uh

52:34 that perspective. But uh we’ll give everyone eight no seven
minutes back uh uh before your next meeting or call.

52:43 Everyone’s busy. really appreciate y’all could join and um thanks
so much. Thanks, Scott.

52:51 Thank you.